=== Designing a PvE spec from pure dps standpoint ===

The following is a backbone of max-dps raiding spec: 8/0/47 for level 80, or 5/0/47 for level 70 (since at level 70 Inner Fire doesn't grant spellpower, Improved Inner Fire becomes useless). This leaves 16 free points at level 80, or 9 free points at level 70 (of those 3 points must be from Tiers 1-5 of Shadow tree, since the spec provided is uncomplete).

Talking about other DPS specs we have three variants: Holy + Shadow hybrid that stays outside of Shadowform and uses Smite as a filler (was actual in the middle of beta, when MF wasn't as overpowered as it's now), Disc + Holy classic holy dps build and deep Disc + Shadow build that reaches disc dps talents at the cost of missing some essential shadow talents. All of those are sub-par to a cookie-cutter one according to Some more weird talent builds thread.

=== Picking manaregen talents ===

The biggest deal here is get as little points in manaregen talents as possible, freeing some more space for utility/fun talents. Take a look at Evaluating manaregen talents - it should help to pick up necessary manaregen abilities.

=== Utility/convenience talents ===

* Improved Power Word: Fortitude (2 Ranks) -> adds 30% to PW:F effect when there are no more priests in the raid.
* Improved Power Word: Shield (2 Ranks) -> adds 30% to PW:S effect for a tiny buff to survivability.
* Improved Vampiric Embrace (2 Ranks) -> brings VE to 5% party heal and 25% self-heal.
* Shadow Focus (3 Ranks), Misery (3 Ranks) -> some points might be left out if you/your raid are close to hit cap (more info about hit caps in Mechanics F.A.Q. thread).
* Dispersion (1 Rank) -> even in its current incarnation it's fun as hell, and useful for multiple purposes, my verdict: surely worth a single point.
* Blackout (5 Ranks), Improved Psychic Scream (2 Ranks), Silence (1 Ranks), Psychic Horror (2 Ranks) -> just to have some more teeth even in a PvE build.

=== Summary ===

So the deal is to pick up as much dps talents as possible (currently even at level 70 it's possible to get all of those). After taking all the dps talents we can pick other talents, e.g. manaregen ones, or some fun/utility stuff. This partially depends on how you feel yourself mana-wise, but the rest is just a personal preference.

Some facts:
* Remaining points are not enough to reach neither DPS talents in Discipline, nor even Divine Spirit, so max tier of Discipline that is worth attention is Tier 3.
* Shadow Affinity seems unnecessary with the tanking changes / Shadowform aggro redux introduced in WotLK: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16974

If you ask me, I like the following specs. You might like the others - feel free to post them here
* Lvl 80: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbzhZZG0fVRfzfiqfzAo
* Lvl 70: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVZZG0fVRrzfiqfzAo

I was looking through the latest Simcraft results and noticed it was using 8/0/53 as its base. I looked through the LatestReport_70_Talents_Shadow file and it didn't go into any detail about what discipline talents were used. I'm curious as to what spec was used, and how results would be different with the suggested 5/0/56 spec.

**sigh** so, I log in and start clicking my talents without reading here first and the old habit kicks in and I stick 14 points in disc...

Hey guys!

I was wondering: regarding DPS talents only, loosing 2 points in Twisted Faith to reach improved Divine spirit, would you:

A) gain or loose personal DPS ?
and
B) if you loose personal DPS, would the gain in DPS raid wide would be worth it?

Build: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcbkhxzbZZG0fVofzciqczI

You loose some nice talents, but let's pretend there is not mana nor pushback problems.

Thx for the hard work guys, realy appreciated.

(sry for the bad english/grammar)

Imp DS doesn't stack with Flametongue Totem which is better.

There is one thing I disagree with in that spec....no shadow affinity. While I too have seen the boost in threat...that doesn't guarantee it will be there in sustaining fights or say fights w/ stop dot calls in case you accidentally let P&S tick on w/ mind flay....still nothing a fade and a taunt or a sunder shouldn't be able to take care of....regardless this remains my point.....at 80 and end game raids, most of us do not know what threat will be like. I'd rather take the points out of imp shadowform and dump them in shadow affinity....again...this is only if threat becomes an issue. I only have the one ZA I did post patch and my tps was probably 15% under the MT's w/ me going all out, +1300 spell dmg, some haste, some crit, yadda yadda. My point is at 80....who knows!? Or maybe its just me who doesn't?!

All reports from level 80 beta testers to date indicate that threat is a complete non issue with the baked in reduction in shadowform. Remember that our VE is getting nerfed which what the additional threat reduction was meant for in the first place, and many people were reporting that at 80 it wasn't much of an issue anways. Essentially, unless something changes drastically concerning threat for either us or tanks in general, it really is useless.

I too creep very close to the tank(s) threat. I don't agree with Affinity being "useless" at all....and I'm working with some of the best tanks I've had the pleasure of raiding with. I do have to agree, however, that our threat issues have pretty much been solved. It's great, but I still don't think it would be wise to drop Affinity. I wouldn't go so far as to say threat is a complete non-issue.

Thats a very nice build but I dont think improved shadowform is necessary in a raid situation. I personally would take those 2 points and fill out 3/3 shadow weaving and 1 point in shadow affinity to help with threat. Or 1/5 blackout is nice just to have the proc. Blackout does work on trash mobs in most raids. Here is my spec I would personally go with..


http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bVZZGzfVRfzfiqczAo


-Zel of Tichondrius

If you arn't passing the Tank now, you have to remember that the post assumes the changes incoming to VE which is seriously nerfing the amount it heals, and will only reduce the threat you generate. However if you were making this statement without using VE.... well, all other accounts have stated they cant' beat the tank even a little bit trying as hard as possible.

Quick question. Is Inner Focus being ignored? If so, why? Seems its 25% increased crit chance will be very useful now that MB crits give you more mana (imp spirit tap), not to mention a free MB with 100%+ increased crit dmg.

I was looking at this spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=350002013000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000320223051023012325152301351

Tons of talents to regen mana. This means you should never really have to stop casting. Dispersion may actually be redundant.

How come that Inner Focus is not covered in the suggested level 80 spec?
And how's your spec different from a suggested level 80 spec except of moving 2 pts of Veiled Shadows into 2 pts of Shadow Affinity?

Ah yes, I must have been looking at your lvl 70 spec. Sorry about that. Your lvl 80 spec Looks similar to mine. Great minds think alike?

This is my preferred leveling spec. KEEP IN MIND THIS IS A NON RAID PVE SPEC. THIS IS PURELY A GRINDING/LEVELING SPEC I PLAN ON USING TO GO FROM 70-80!

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=bVcMzhZZGxf0RfzfiqfzAo

Sure, full weaving and full blackout are a reason to have 0/5 imp. mindblast. Wait... Maybe not?!
And btw for soloing, I'd rather not take Imp. ST that gets overwritten by normal ST each time you score a kill rather than left Imp. MB out.